But it can work through your individuality also, if you are in a state of unison with that. You can be an instrument in the hands of that power, when you are in unison with that in your deep feeling. They will propel you to act. These are the incarnations and the prophets, as they are called. They are individuals but they are working under the command of a universal force. The whole universal power is concentrated in one individual; that is an incarnation—like the entire power of the sun getting concentrated through a lens and acting at a particular spot. They are called super-human beings. The individuality is there for all purposes of perception, but they are treading in the heavens, actually speaking, because they have consciousness of earth as well as heaven at the same time. That is a peculiar state of jivanmukti, as they call it—you are liberated, and yet you are conscious of the whole of creation. It is an intermediary stage between ordinary human consciousness and Absolute consciousness. That is what is called incarnation consciousness,jivanmukti consciousness. It is an intermediary stage where you can become a cosmic worker, a world savior, as they call it. All the saviors of the world, the incarnations—Krishna, Christ, Buddha, whoever they are—they were intermediaries in the cosmic force, which operated through this physical individuality of theirs, as visible to the eyes. They were not thinking through the body. They were thinking through a larger area, and so we call them incarnations. That is, “incarnation” means the concentration of universal force in a particular body. And, you can also become that. You may become a world savior, a prophet, an incarnation, if the thoughts of yours are cosmic thoughts. And, you will not think in any other manner except that way.

SWAMIJI: When you think, you will know that It is thinking through you. You will know it. Sometimes you say, “he is possessed by divine forces.” You get possessed by that, and you can know that it is working through you, somebody else is speaking through you.

Dr. P. C. Rao: Why don’t I invite the divine force to enter and say, “Now let us move forward.”

SWAMIJI: It will do that. It can do whatever is necessary for the evolution of the total universe. It is not doing it for the welfare of any particular individual. There are no particular individuals.

Dr. P. C. Rao: Then, why should I meditate, Swamiji?

SWAMIJI: So that you may know that it is the truth. You are always thinking you are somewhere, in some place. You have to remove that idea. There is a peculiar habit of the mind asserting itself as located in some place, in a particular form, in a particular condition, etc. This must be removed.

Sri C. G. Krishnamurty: What Dr. Rao says is if I am That, why not let That guide me in the proper line?

SWAMIJI: It will certainly guide you.

Sri C. G. Krishnamurty: If that is so, then why should I meditate?

SWAMIJI: It will guide you only after you become one with It. For that, you have to meditate. The government protects and guides the ambassador, but for that he has to become the ambassador first.

Dr. P. C. Rao: But, the ambassador is different from the government. He only carries out the instructions of the government. He is not the government himself. Government is a larger entity.

SWAMIJI: That is true. So, he is acting as a representative of the government itself.

Dr. P. C. Rao: Therefore, I asked at the very beginning, “Am I the agent?”

SWAMIJI: In one stage, you are the agent. There are three stages.

Dr. P. C. Rao: If I am the agent, I carry out these instructions. I can’t be held accountable at all. I am not answerable to anybody.

SWAMIJI: Certainly you are not accountable, provided you are having that consciousness.

Dr. P. C. Rao: Then it is conditional; you have introduced a proviso.

SWAMIJI: Otherwise, if in the middle you start thinking you are Mr. Rao talking, then it won’t work.

Dr. P. C. Rao: No, if I am the ambassador, I know that if the government gives me instructions, it is as the ambassador of that country; I go and give it. And if these instructions don’t fructify, if nothing comes out of it, or bad comes of it, I can’t be held responsible because I merely carried out the instructions given to me by my superior.

SWAMIJI: He is responsible only if he does something contrary to the government ordinance.

Dr. P. C. Rao: Yes. But you are also saying that I cannot even act contrary to the direction. You are incapable of doing so, because it controls.

SWAMIJI: Sometimes it is possible in the intermediary stage to slip into ego consciousness. If you are continuously maintaining a universal consciousness, you are not responsible for anything. But that consciousness is not maintained always. Sometimes in the intermediary, earlier stages, the mind slips into ego consciousness and mistakes can be committed. Even Lord Krishna said, “I cannot repeat the Gita a second time.” He came down from that level. When Arjuna said, “Speak to me once again,” He said, “No, no. You are a foolish man.”

Dr. P. C. Rao: If you slip into it, while logically pursuing this, doggedly pursuing it, it means are you acting contrary to the instruction of. . . Even that slipping into that former direction—are you accountable?

SWAMIJI: You will not slip after a certain stage. It is a force of individuality. For ages and ages we have been living in this body, so it is having its say, even when you are meditating and insisting that “I am also there.” To overcome that feeling of body consciousness. . .

Dr. P. C. Rao: One can reconcile and say that it is the divine wish that it be like this.

SWAMIJI: You are not simply saying that it is a divine wish. You know that it is a divine wish and you will never feel that you are doing anything at that time. It all depends upon what you feel in your mind. What are you feeling? You will feel that you are not doing anything independently.

Swami Krishnananda


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